[JClark]

From CDR Salamander, a what if story, from the Navy's point of view:

http://cdrsalamander...kitty-hawk.html

Make sure you read the comments...very good stuff there as well

Boats

[steveegg]

Mighty interesting and scary.

[JClark]

Yup, sure is...more scary, because this is not a Harpooners scenario, but something that was written by a USN regular.

Good to see you again, Steve!

Byron

[steveegg]

It's been a while, hasn't it? Been busy with other stuff, including a slight move.

[JClark]

Life does that to you, Steve. Good to see you back, though.

Boats

[James Powell]

ASW in the PNW...well, at least here there is a chance that the USN and RCN will have a new tin mouse to chase around as per Rainbow and Gristle, whenever we finally manage to get HMCS Victoria (SSK, ex Upholder class) off the wall here. Of course, by my figuring, it would have been easier to float the damm'd thing on loonies ($1 coins) than refiting it.

ASW- I can remember several times in 97 when we were hunting with the VDS off the back of HURON, I don't think we ever found anything. Of course, a VDS in active mode is more like a torpedo magnet than anything else, even if it is the best that we had got. (the two seathings that she carried on the other hand...they might be useful). I haven't been on a ship with sonar for the last few years (well, if you except a fish finder!), so I don't know what is being done to hunt in the RCN. I do know that side scan stuff has been done over a lot of our coastal waters, just read how HMCS Yellowknife lost two towed bodies over the last couple of years...

James Powell

[A6BSTARM]

James,

I wouldn't hold your breath about doing ASW in the PNW. Greenpeace, Sierra Club, and a couple of the local tree-huggers groups in WA state are currently taking the US Navy to court again for the lost of a couple of Orcas due to LF sonar hazards. The US Navy has been effectively forced out of the ASW mission because of its need to bend for the tree huggers and the belief that the only people that know how to use submarines were the Soviets and US.

It is coming to the point that the US will have to relearn the ASW mission the same way that we did 60+yrs ago. With the lost of good men and good ships because people were being stupid.

[James Powell]

I don't know how sucessful LF sonar would be- without a war, it is very hard to justify using something that will do quite severe damage to the environment.

(sure, we can "win" a nuke war, but will we want to live on the world that results?)

I have my doubts as to how well LF will work, as I think that it will end up being relatively short gain and very limited utility. Like all active sensors, it causes the problem that it is like being a person with a flashlight in a dark room- you can only see what you are pointing at, and everything that is in the room can see where the light is.

I am supprised more bistatic systems are not in use, especially given the higher data transfer rates that are now available. In the Littoral, they are unlikely to be all that useful, but LF is going to be equally useless...HF minehunting sonar would work, but has a very limited range. (DE sub can bottom...or hover, and that makes it very hard to find the thing...think of looking for your car battery (~2000 ton one, mind you!), sitting on or very near the bottom of the ocean).

This leaves passive arrays, which the USN and the RCN both use. If a diesel is snorting, there is a decent chance of hearing it. If it is on batteries, forgettaboutit, it is going to be flaming datum time.

There is the possibilty of using large HE charges to generate single LF waves, which then could be interpreted by SOSUS or SURTASS ships (if any of them are still servicable...I know there were a decent # of them in Pearl, but I don't know if they were useable or not)

Mag capacity and availabilty of enough LWT's is a serious concern. In wartime, the stocks on hand would probably be used fairly quickly.

James